men's ethics ?

[pig-killer]

i just wanna share my mixed feelings with you guys now..I'm in love with a working girl..you know what i mean.. she's cute Korean girl (i'm Asian, but not Kor), warm hearted, understands me alot.. we both love each other for a few months now and it gets deeper and deeper.. So we start planing abt our future, when she finishes up her "job" and goes back to study. Our plan is to buy an apartment near city (cost around $300K), she wants to have a Mercedes SLK (costs around $100K), and she will need to finish her university degree (costs around $30K for 2 more years studying), and we want to have a baby.. So we will need around $100K (car)+ $100K (deposit for the apartment) + $30K (for study) .. That's to start with. To be honest, I feel we don't need a Mercedes SLK, but she told me that's her dream for soooo long, she's dying for it.. So OK, i told her if she can afford it now, buy it.. she can earn around $20K/month in her job, so in abt 1 year or maybe 1 year and 6 months, she will have around $250K. I'm working full time now in a white collar job and earn around $70K/year, so I can afford to pay for the apartment after the $100K deposit, but I think it will take me around 5 years or even more if I can buy a Merc SLK, so if she wants it, she will have to work in that job for longer time. The problem now is she's so deeply in love with me, and I feel the same, and she told me she can't really work in that job any longer..It hurts her every day eventhough we both know that her job is all about money, and I told her I understand that, and I will wait for her until her save enough money for her dream.. however, she told me every day now that she doesnt want to work any longer, and she just want to save enough money for University and then goes back to studying and living like a normal girl with me.. However, I'm afraid that if she cannot fullfill her dream now, it may hurt her when it comes to reality that we both have to work hard in 10 years or even more to achieve that..or she may never have a SLK in her life. I don't want to push her to that job, it hurts me a lot every time I think abt it, and I'm so happy if she stops..but if she stops short now, how can we get enough finance power to overcome the time she needs to study in uni, and when she starts looking for normal, maybe low paid jobs? it worries me.. and it hurts me when i see her message every night when she says she's working but not happy, sad, depressed.. it just not like the girl i used to know for months. I know how she feels, and i know she loves me so much..but at the same time, I worry abt our future, but I cannot say that I want her to keep working in that job when she said she doesnt want anymore.. What kind of men will want his GF do that to other men to earn money? I feel guilty and painful every time i think abt this.. but if she stops, her dream may never come true..and she will face a hard time if she goes back to normal life short of money.. I can support her with her school, living, bills,... but for the house, the car.. I know it's out of my hand.. If she wants it, she will have to wait until she finish shcool, finds a job..that will be 3-4 years later..and no one knows what will happen in the next 3-4 years..
what should i do now? I keep telling her to calm down, dont stress, blah blah.. but i cannot tell her "baby, stick to our original plan and take the money when you finish next year".. because she will tell me how painful it is to work like this, and it is too long for her, and she worry abt her health, and she aks me "why? why u want me to keep working? u don't love me? " .. men, i dont know what to say or what to do now..

[Evildoer666]

if it hurts, you stop! no amount of money is worth the pain and the health risk (btw, no amount of money would cure hiv (at least not yet), just ask magic johnson. ;)) i must say that $20k/month is quite a bit of money, but it sound like you would get by without it.

if she works (a regular job) and make about $30k/year, pooling that with your 70k/year, both of you would have $100k/year income. you can easily take out a mortgage for the house. as for the car, there is nothing wrong with waiting 3-4 years. besides, in 3-4 years, the car would come even more high tech than it is now.

[Lustor!]

I don't know the girl and if you like her, great, but having a "dream" such as this seems cheap (although it's not cheap dollar wise) to me. It sounds like she values material stuff more than anything. Personally, I wouldn't bother with such a woman. But that's just me. I mean, love is about sacrifice. And if she loves you more than this dream, then shouldn't she just give it up or put it on hold?

And who's not to say that you'll crack up the car the day after you buy it?

[bbenson67]

(Psychiatrist hat goes on). There are so many issues here that you both really need to seek some pre-marital counseling. This woman is capable of compartmentalizing her life in ways that border on the unreal. Whether you admit it or not you also probably have some self-esteem issues if you are willing to put up with her "job". It sounds like the relationship is based on some very materialistic goals that do not a marriage make.

I think you need to do some soul-searching about a woman who is willing to sell herself for a car. I know this sounds harsh, but I have been around the block a time or two and this story scares me. This is not a criticism of you but a suggestion to really get some professional advice before you go any further.

As the wise old man once said, we see the world through very distorted lenses. Our reality is shaped by many influences and needs. What we think we see and what we think we perceive are sometimes driven by things we aren't even aware of.

Good luck and I truly hope this all works out for you.

[OldiesLover]

After reading all of that... I understand where you came up with your Forum name! :eek:

[6502inside]

Why the fixation on an SLK? just for showing off? surely one can get a more fun car than that for half the price.

[mrblue]

Both your salaries are just not enough to accomodate so many things - apartment, SLK, uni degree etc. U should have a good talk with your girl and convince her to forget the SLK for now. I would advise her to concentrate on her studies. She can aim for the SLK again after getting a well paying job upon graduation.

If possible, get your girl to quit that job. It's way too dangerous. Why must she do that just for the sake of a car?

By the way, where are her parents?

[pig-killer]

yes, she wants to quit.. and she's happy to give up her dream about the SLK now.. she said she only concentrate on Uni degree and the house.. But I don't want her to give up her dream if she can make it come true.. you know what i mean? what if one day she's walking with me passing a SLK and she said "ohhhh..that's my dreammmmmmm... hix hix..don't know if I ever have it?".. it will hurt me even more.. I mean, she's already in the job now..stop now or 6mth later doesn make much difference, doesnt it? but in 6mth, she will have enough money to fullfill her dream.. That's why I'm confused now..my girl wants to quit..should I just tell her "stick to your plan and continue for 6mth" or "oh yes hunnie just quit" ? I want to tell her just quit, but at the same time, I'm afraid that she will be unhappy to realise that her dream won't come true (at least in near future).
confused !

[pig-killer]

If possible, get your girl to quit that job. It's way too dangerous. Why must she do that just for the sake of a car?

By the way, where are her parents?

her mum is in another country, her dad got a company but was violent to her mum, get drunk , so they divorced... she works not only for the car, but she wants money for uni and a stable life after uni, too..
she plans to work abt 2 years, but after meeting me, she wants to quit after 6mth in the job.

[seorang]

You know.... this sounds plain out of a drama.

And you sound like you've been manipulated by her alot.

[deeperez1]

bbenson67 is spot on! but... if you want the layman's simple but true explanation... i'll have to agree with evildoer and lustor!

In a nutshell, the fixation with the SLK should end... cause if that's enough to make her regret being with you in the future, then it doesnt sound like love to me... then again, ask yourself this... when you both walk past the SLK in the future... who will be sobbing more over not having it... her? or you?

Nothing attained easily in life is ever lasting or beneficial... I dont think either of you are being very realistic with your goals, and that can ultimately lead to false expectations, setup for failure and unhappiness and reprehensions on both your parts.

1) If I were you, I'd wash my hands of the responsibility...

2) I'd say "yes honey, I want you to quit", and as much as you would want to... don't say another word... let "her" have the next sentence.

3) In her head, she will already be scrambling frantically about, to try and get you back into the "it's my fault you continue to do this corner". She would think for a moment, and not wanting to give up her SLK fixation, she would make another attempt to turn the tables on you again (by having you become the culprit again) by asking about the "materials" she wants... "but... honey, what about the car, the house, the uni?"

4) and then I'd say "a relationship does not revolve around those things. Of course we'll have them, but they will come with time and hard work".

5) Then if she really wants to be with you, and stop "working" for money, if she "really" wants to get out of that business, she will do it. If she can't let go of her obsession for these material items (or other addictions), then she won't (or maybe you won't), and that doesn't sound like love to me...

As long as you keep harboring your personal desire for these items as well (or your desire for her to have them), you will always be the bad guy, mainly because that's her way of making "you" feel responsible for her actions.... and eliminating any possibility of you ever being able to reproach her ex-profession.

Everytime you say "hang in there just a few more months honey... I want you to have those things"... she will always come back with "I want to quit already, don't you love me?" and you will never really be rid of your situation... the same vicious cycle will repeat over and over... and it will always be your fault... and just think, today it's car/house/uni... 6 months from now, the list will be longer, I guarantee it. Money is seductive, and makes us put up with alot that we shouldn't, all for the sake of having it.

You want an answer to your problems? Follow my patented 5 step system, and you will know if she's "the one". You can make your check payable to [email protected] 10% of all proceeds will be donated to the Escorts with Diarrhea Foundation.

Sorry, I couldn't resist... But seriously...

If she fails the exam, then have your kicks for as long as you like with her... but discard any delisuions of happiness and white-picket-fences and such... cause that's not where you're headed if you get married.

If she aces the exam, then marry her, but tread carefully... dreams die hard and you hold them in your hands long after they've turned to dust.

"Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe"

[mrblue]

I mean, she's already in the job now..stop now or 6mth later doesn make much difference, doesnt it? but in 6mth, she will have enough money to fullfill her dream..

6 mths and 2 yrs does have quite a difference. But as I said earlier, this is a dangerous job. One false move during those 6 mths and she could catch those nonsense, if u know what I mean.

If u want to help fulfill her dream, u can just take on a 2nd job. Just save and spend wisely. This might take more than 6 mths but u could still get your SLK.

[pig-killer]

oh , thanks very very much indeeds guys.. I really appreciate all your inputs. It sounds like I'm thinking the right way as deeperez1 said. I thinkl she really wants to quit because of me now, and she said she really wants to concentrate on Uni and buying a house first with me.. the SLK is not that important to her. Living and building future with me is more important, that's what she said.
if you have any thoughts about this topic, please do post and we can talk more. This affair has been going for 8mth now.. and I know this is not just a suddent feeling. I'm NOT a teenager..I used to have a wife and divorced because she cheated on me, and she used to have a long term relation BF, so we both know reality bites..!

[pig-killer]

deeperez1,
what if she said "oh, because of you so I don't want to work, I feel sad and painfull when I serve a customer.. before, I didnt think much, just work and earn money. Since I met u, i always think how to save money for the future, I'm stressed.."
She said to me once liek that, and I said to her "honey, we know each other for 8mth, and even though I love u soo much, but if my love makes you unsettle and unhappy, you can just go. I'm here with you to make you happy, not to make you stressed out" . She said "please never say to me: you can just go. ok? I love you and i know you are more important to my life than money or anything else."
did i say the right thing to her?
hum...

[HongKongDr]

deeperez1,
She said "please never say to me: you can just go. ok? I love you and i know you are more important to my life than money or anything else."
did i say the right thing to her?
hum...
So what is right thing?

You say one thing

She say another thing.

is anything right or wrong - it is just what is said -

She is still working girl -
You are white collar working man -

How you feel about what she do?
How she feel about what she do?

it is all relatively - is it about "the money" or is it about the " feelings"

[deeperez1]

deeperez1,
what if she said "oh, because of you so I don't want to work, I feel sad and painfull when I serve a customer.. before, I didnt think much, just work and earn money. Since I met u, i always think how to save money for the future, I'm stressed.."
She said to me once liek that, and I said to her "honey, we know each other for 8mth, and even though I love u soo much, but if my love makes you unsettle and unhappy, you can just go. I'm here with you to make you happy, not to make you stressed out" . She said "please never say to me: you can just go. ok? I love you and i know you are more important to my life than money or anything else."
did i say the right thing to her?
hum...

The right thing? The right thing would be for you to say "honey, I love you to death, and you're not going back tomorrow... we'll move your things into my place, and you can start looking for a new job this weekend... after that... "life finds a way"

But... I believe you ARE moving in the right direction...

why? because by saying "honey, we know each other for 8mth, and even though I love u soo much, but if my love makes you unsettle and unhappy, you can just go. I'm here with you to make you happy, not to make you stressed out" you are now relinquishing the responsibility for her actions... now, if she feels "sad and painful when I service a customer" it is no one's fault but her own... before, it was yours... (the ball is back in her court now)

see, now she can't tell you "honey, remember I'm just doing this because you told me you wanted me to continue, so I can have these things"

now... all you have to do is set a date.... and the sooner, the better... you need to make a plan, set a date for her to quit, and stick with it.

In the end... two people that come together, form a bond, strive for a unified goal, manage expenses wisely, and pool their resources... always get to achieve their goals in the end... the road is long and hard... but it is necessary, as the "fast track" can lead to a "fatal crash and burn".

The house, the SLK, the university... are NOT pre-requisites for "happiness"... these things can all be obtained while you are together, and she is OUT of the profession.

I dont usually do this, but I'm gonna tell you a little about myself... when I got married... I had known her for about a year, and I had a good job, but I had never saved a penny, it was all about the clothes, the gear, hanging out, spending wildly... $500 for Oaklies, $600 for a MontBlanc Pen, just senseless spending... so I got married... I didn't have an appartment or furniture, not even a bed... (but I looked damn good!) her parents told me "if you wish to marry my daughter, material things are NOT what we're looking for, just love her and be good to her" (i know not all parents are like that, but wait... there's a point to all this)... so they said "if you want to marry her, but don't have funds, you can stay with us until you feel ready". They have a huge house and gave us the first floor. I accepted their offer, and moved out of their house 2 years later, with everything I needed... I had bedroom sets, furniture, computers, stereo equipment, you name it... i had it... and now... it's been 14 years (coming this February 2007) and I have 3 beautiful children, and I just bought my 4th car...

Where am I going with all this? The fact that we (and anyone can) started with NOTHING... as a matter of fact, less than nothing! and because there is LOVE and understanding, and tons of hard work, and sacrifice, we can all have what we want in the end... you dont NEED all that to start if you truly love one another...

Think about it... don't talk to her until you've formulated your strategy... I hope things work out for you...

PEACE ! :beer:

[pig-killer]

thanks very much guys.. I cannot ask this question to any friend of mine, because they might know abt my GF's work..so I asked it here. And thankfully, I have had a lot of GOOD advices..thanks so much !

[deeperez1]

thanks very much guys.. I cannot ask this question to any friend of mine, because they might know abt my GF's work..so I asked it here. And thankfully, I have had a lot of GOOD advices..thanks so much !

No problem man... "jus handle yo biz"... and keep us posted on how it works out for you !

PEACE ! :beer:

[basnobasno]

why are you doing this to yourself?

bounce, dude.

just bounce.

and you know the reasons why.

you dont need this thread or us to tell you.

this thread is your comfirmation of what you already know.

change your life now.

hope my frank response is not too curt. you seem like a nice guy, this girl has issues beyong a fixation on an slk. but i guess if you are willing to accept her issues and are prepared about how they could effect you, then godspeed. the heart wants what the heart wants . . . .

[pig-killer]

why are you doing this to yourself?

bounce, dude.

just bounce.

and you know the reasons why.

you dont need this thread or us to tell you.

this thread is your comfirmation of what you already know.

change your life now.

hope my frank response is not too curt. you seem like a nice guy, this girl has issues beyong a fixation on an slk. but i guess if you are willing to accept her issues and are prepared about how they could effect you, then godspeed. the heart wants what the heart wants . . . .

thanks for your kind response..but being with her for 8mth now, i know she truly loves me more than her SLK, her apartment or her money. I was married before to a girl who used to be an actress but acted and did MUCH MORE NASTY THINGS than a working girl. When I'm with my GF now, looking to her eyes, i knwo that she truly loves me, and so do I. So I cannot just run away from this true feeling just because she's a working girl. She started the job BEFORE I know her, and now she's making a decision to quit the job and return to normal life to be with me, so there's no reason to run away. I don't know what this may sound to all of you, but that's how I am.
thanks again bro

[AL3X]

keep us updated on how it goes!

[pig-killer]

ok, now I'm back to this thread yet again... I thought I could leave this matter to rest forever, but now I have to face it in my life again.
Little update since my last post:
My girl quitted working as a WL a few months after she met me. I helped her a lot, both financially and emotionally so that she could calm down and have a realistic goal/view about her life. I was very happy to see that she took my advices seriously and went back to University to finish off her Degree and also studied a Make up course from 1 of the best provider in the world. We lived togather for a few months and then because of her study, she has to go back to Korea, her hometown, to finish her study and also to study the Make up course. EVerything went well, we kept in touch, I flight to Korea a few times to visit her and she also visited me once in a while. Xmas 2007, I took her home and introduced her to my parents (my elder sister and her husband already met her and they both like her. So as her in-law parents). My parents were a bit reluctant to see me with a good looking girl again, given the fact that my ex-wife was an actress and our mariage was a nightmare. However, during 1 month living togather, she naturally showed them that she is a sincere girl.. kind heart, smart, warm and good educated. So my parents started to like her. At this point, we started planning about our future life because her make up course will finish in April 2008 and her uni will finish in 2 months after that. Until now, I've been in a relationship with her for over 1 year and I have to say that this girl is very smart. She has a sharp eye on fashion, design and gives me good advices about my business and also my life. That is the main reason why I appreciated this girl so much. She also surprised me that despite of her WL backgound, her action and dress are always elegant. She never wears too less clothes stuff and she never acts cheaply. I know this is her real personality , not because of her WL backgound or she tried to please me that way because I know many of her friends when I went to Korea and they all said the same thing about her, even friends that know her like 10 years.
During the time we've been togather, she never nagged me for anything. I helped her things that I know , but other than that, she tried to take care of her life herself so that she is not a burden to me. Not until we married, or at least living togather in a permanen basis she said. I wanted to open a Beauty Center in my hometown (Singapore) in 2008 because I'm quite confident with her skills. My parents and all people around me also approved the plan and they said if she and I operated the business, it will have a big chance to be successful in the Asian market. So, life is so good, everyhing's right, everyone is happy, right? No quite ...
Her mum is ill. She has a hear-problem and she was required to undergo a heart transplant in 2007 to save her life. The op was successful, but she has to undergo another op in 2008. I know about this and I called her mum sometimes to cheer her up. My GF never asked me for help about her mum, but I lnow that the hospital fee and op fee are not cheap. My GF spent lots of money that she saved when she worked on those bills. Her parents are divorce, and her elder brother (who is same age as me, 28) has a shit job in Seoul and is struggling to pay his own mortage. Her dad was bankrupt long time ago and now living like a shadow in a rural house 150km away from Seoul. In short, no one can help her. I told her that if she needs me for anything, just tell me and I will help her all I can. However, this year, I'm short in money because I spent a lot to setup a new business and according to my plan, it will be about 2 years before I can recover that money. It's all good though, we both think it's a good plan and it will give us a better life. We spent a happy time since Xmas till Chinese New Year togather and she went back to Korea. Just 1 night, out of the blue, I received her message and she asled me to forgive her because she wanted to break up. At first, i didnt even understand what she said and I asked again. She replied, telling me that we better off break up. It will be good for my life. I was like.. What the hell are you talking about? What is the reason ? If you want to break up because you think we are not matching or you have found a better man, fine. I'm not short of girls around me, but let me know what the reason is. At first, she refused to say it, but when I insisted more, she busted and replied me:

I will start working again next month. It will be better for your life if you forget me.I'm sure a guy like you deserve a better girl. Even I work again, but please do not think I'm crazy like before again. My working before because i was crazy and shallow, but not this time.

I was shocked. Couldnt say anything, but tears came out from my eyes a lot...I couldnt help it. Never cried for a girl since my divorce, but at that time, i could not help. I just asked her why she has to work again, she simply said because of "my family situation. I talked to my mum and brother tonight, and i know i need to do this". When I asked her if she's desparate for money or not, she simply told me to forget about her. I was spechless. I told her if she knows how much hope and effort that i gave her over 1 year to get her back to this stage, with education and life, she was just quiet. I knew she cried too...
So I was hurt, but I decided to forget about her because I know this girl doesn't deserve me. But I have the feeling that she will contact me again after the shock is over. And today, she emailed me, told me that she needs money for her mum to have the 2nd op, but she doesnt want to bother me now because she knows I have spent a lot of money to setup the new business and I need some money for emergency. She said please do not hate her, even when we break up. She won't contact me to bother me again...
The email is short, but it confirmed my feeling about this sudden break up.
Now, I'm sitting here, alone, feeling empty. I don't try to speak highly about me at this moment but I know that if I pick up my phone, there will be a good girl who likes me and waiting for me. But I don't want to do anything now. I know even if I somehow have money to give her, she wouldn't take it. I know that for sure. She said times and times again that she doesnt want to be a burden to me if we are not married or living togather because she loves me a lot and she really appreciated my help. Without me, she wouldn't be able to quit her working, calm down, study again and has a happy life like now. Relationship to me now is meaningless. After my broken marriage, i was depressed and didn't want to fall in love again. And then, when I met this girl, my heart started to feel warm and I again could taste the happiness in my life. But now, it's all gone. This time, I'm not gonna say I will be depressed again. No. But I know that even I will love another in the future, I won't love the same way I did for her, my lovely Korean girl. Everything related to Korean now reminds me of her, but I know this feeling will go away soon...

Aegi, sa rang he ...

[STM]

Sorry to hear that. Sound to me like her family is manipulating her for their own benefit. Doesn't South Korea have socialized/universal medical insurance?

[zhiek_rhalst]

Sounds like you're gonna' be pimped to me.

[HongKongDr]

ok, now I'm back to this thread yet again... I thought I could leave this matter to rest forever, but now I have to face it in my life again............... Everything related to Korean now reminds me of her, but I know this feeling will go away soon...

Aegi, sa rang he ...

Dear Pig Killer -

What I feel from your writing now is that there is some " FEAR" in how you are living - everything around you is a " FACET" of this woman - and everything that YOU (Pig Killer ) - see - hear - feel - touch - look at reminds you of this woman and what this woman means to you within you -

Remember it is only a " FACET " of your life - a period of you life -

You get up tomorrow morning and take another step and move forward with your life -

it is about letting go of the " FEAR " - Love is letting go of the " FEAR" -

we all move on with our lives - we do not stay " dormant" nor do we stand still in time - that is not real -

Allow yourself to " FEEL " and then LET GO of this " FEAR " and " PAIN " and move on - please -

You are truly tooooooooooooo good a person - and a very " loving - caring - sincere " person to allow yourself to be in this space -

blessings to you always -

[turbogek]

Man, I feel for you. I had a girl one time who things were going perfectly with and she dumped me out of nowhere because "this are going too well and we are getting too close". I still hate her all these years later though I got past it and have had other good relationships since.

It was soul-crushing hard for the first 6 weeks and I was still depressed for months afterwards but it will eventually pass.